Talk:Zarbon
So... what was Zarbon's role in Frieza's genocide of the Saiyans? I'm asking because there's conflicting information between Zarbon's page and this page in regards to his role in the massacre. On this page, it explicitly states that Zarbon advised Frieza to wipe out the Saiyans before they became a threat. On the other hand, Frieza's page says that "Against the advice of Zarbon, Frieza plans to wipe out the saiyan race", which implies that Zarbon was actually against destroying Planet Vegeta, or the saiyans for that matter.I blocked those comments out until we reached a conclusion as to which was more accurate. If anyone can explain which was more accurate, I'll be sure to reinstate it, and change the other one. :"Against his advice" is a strong way to put it. In the flashback-backstory for King Vegeta in Dragon Ball Z, after the king and his soldiers are killed aboard Frieza's ship, Zarbon asks Frieza if slaying the Saiyans is really necessary now that their leader has been removed and the heir to the throne is in their custody (he doesn't give reasons for why it isn't totally necessary, but for the sake of explanation these are the circumstances as far as the plot goes). [[User:Vixen Windstorm|'Storm']] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|'talk']] –''' [[User:Vixen Windstorm#Projects|'''projects]] 01:18, 23 January 2009 (UTC) ::Ah, good recollection Storm. I'd forgotten about that. Now that you mention that, I don't think "against his advice" is a very precise choice of words here. Maybe I'll work on a phrase that might fit this since it does seem to be causing some confusion with readers. Templarion Prime 03:57, 24 January 2009 (UTC) :::That's in the English dub. I'd like to point out that in the original dub, it was Zarbon who suggested that the Saiyans be eradicated to Frieza directly. In the English dub, they changed the wording to "But, how would you like to go up against that bunch on a blue moon?" meaning the Saiyans were growing too powerful as a combined unit and they needed to be dealt with (eradicated). Frieza made much of his decisions based on Zarbon's advice. And later in an episode in the Frieza saga, Frieza says he needs to execute them because "monkey see, monkey do". Zarbon must have also suggested the execution of King Vegeta because of how he replied: "Is it necessary now that King Vegeta's out of the way?" meaning King Vegeta posed the greatest threat because of his power level of around 10,000. And the further removal of Bardock's team at the hands of Dodoria further meant full mission completion of the eradication of the strongest living saiyans. The popping of planet vegeta was just icing on the cake to prevent other powerful saiyans from arising and posing a threat. btw Zarbon, Dodoria, and Cui are my favorite characters in the entire series, so if there's anything that anyone needs to understand furthermore, let me know. - PrinceZarbon 16:13, 18 February 2009 (UTC) Transformation I know video games aren't the top priority for canonicity, but the Character Reference of Budokai Tenkaichi 3 explains that "transformation is his true, monstrous form ... Though he had hidden his despised true shape for many years, in danger of being overwhelmed by Vegeta on Planet Namek, Zarbon put aside his vanity and transformed. ... Though his powers are increased in his true, monstrous state, Zarbon cannot bear to be seen in such a hideous form. Therefore, very few people have witnessed his transformation, and even fewer have lived to tell about it." Do any guides such as the Daizenshuu corroborate this? (Since I'm pretty sure this bit wouldn't have been explained in either dub.) [[User:Vixen Windstorm|'Storm']] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|'talk']] –''' [[User:Vixen Windstorm#Projects|'''projects]] 15:39, 19 February 2009 (UTC) :Heya mate. It's nice of you to bring this up. Much of the stuff written in the Budokai games is not factual. In fact, there's a laughable account in the Budokai games where it says that Salza is from Jeice's race, whilst he is not...and that he has a rivalry with Captain Ginyu...which he doesn't. The best resource for any information is indeed the original manga. And if we take the original manga into account for Zarbon's reference, then it is best to rely on the information ascribed to him there. Simply, it describes him as a lover of beauty. But he hides a demonic transformation and he is a mysterious warrior. It's not well to assume that the beast form his his "true" form, because it isn't. There is no "true" form. It's merely his second form, as Frieza has a few forms. Also, it's important to note that Frieza doesn't want to transform to his pinnacle because his power is too radical to control. This is not the case for Zarbon. He simply doesn't want to transform because his second reptilian form disfigures his look (appearance). That's another very important point here. So to say that his monstrous form is his "true" form is a very wrong assumption. It is the form in which his highest power lies, but it's as true a form as his first. As the character himself states: "Are you certain you want to see my true power? I don't think you can handle it." Hence, this being a reference to his true power being unleashed in his second form, does not mean that is his true appearance, merely his second. Also, Frieza's changeling ancestry doesn't have a "true" form either. They merely have four (or 5 if counting Cooler's) forms. None of them are "true". They are all progressions and forms one upon the other. On another note, a factual statement is his own reference to the beauty and the beast. He himself classifies himself as a beauty and a beast, referencing his two forms, and this is perhaps the MOST accurate representation in the series run (in all languages). - PrinceZarbon 20:05, 19 February 2009 (UTC) ::I think when we speak of a "true" form, we're referring to the character's original form. In that sense, Frieza's true form was his final transformation. (He developed the weaker transformations to conserve energy.) While material from the games certainly doesn't have the canonicity of the manga or anime, they are still covered here. That said, we should at least make a note (in the proper context) of what games say about the character and his transformations. And unless a more authoritative source conflicts with what was said in a game, it doesn't seem like we have any right to directly contradict the game in the article. That's my thought anyway. -- 10:09, 21 February 2009 (UTC) :::No, we shouldn't toss aside the information from the games. However, we should maintain and separate the information, not include it in the picture references and the "appearance" and "origin" sections for the characters. That information, as it is non-canonical, should be kept in either the section in relation to the game, and/or the trivia section. Those are the two best places to reference information such as that. ::::But the fact that Zarbon doesn't have a "true" form, is what I brought up specifically. Frieza doesn't have a "true" form either. He has 4 forms, of which the last holds his true power. That isn't to say that his other forms aren't true. They are an ascension one unto the other. They simply cloak the power of his final form. Also, I mentioned that the reason behind their cloaking is different. Frieza does it to conceal the zenith of his strength. Zarbon does it to conceal his gruesome look with a beautiful camouflage. It's a big parallel. - PrinceZarbon 15:46, 21 February 2009 (UTC) I don't think we're in disagreement about anything; I just meant to clarify that the previous references to a "true" form were probably speaking about an original form. (At least that's the impression I got.) And obviously, every character has an original form of some sort. Frieza's is his final form; AFAIK Zarbon's is unknown in manga/anime canonicity, but a game states that it's his stronger, monstrous form, so we would mention that in the proper context (game or trivia section, like you said). That sound right? -- 07:51, 23 February 2009 (UTC) :Yup. Sounds about right. All the info and trivia from the game we can keep in the game/trivia section my dear comrade. - PrinceZarbon 15:10, 23 February 2009 (UTC) ::Wait, I thought the Rivalry between Ginyu and Salza was something Shonen Jump made up, not Budokai? Also, didn't Vegeta imply that Frieza's fourth form was his true form? :::No. The implication was that his final form held his "true" power, not his true form. Also, Shonen Jump's information also belongs in the trivia/game section. Anything beyond the published manga and televised anime is second-hand to the extent that it's non-canonical; hence it belongs in the trivia section. But for informational purposes, the Salza heritage was noted in the Budokai games. - PrinceZarbon 04:03, 3 March 2009 (UTC) :::Like was mentioned before, if by true form you mean original form, then yes, Frieza's final form was his original form. He developed the weaker ones to conserve energy. -- 09:11, 3 March 2009 (UTC) ::::That much we can't confirm. However, what we can confirm about Frieza is that he has 4 forms and that they are all true. His 4th form holds his true "highest" power though that isn't to say that the rest of his forms aren't true in and of themselves. We have to be as encyclopedic as possible, what we do know is relevant. Whatever is left to speculation, we should either neglect or add in the trivia section (in the case of Frieza, for example). - PrinceZarbon 05:24, 4 March 2009 (UTC) Well, that's what the Frieza article had down, and the series does seem to imply this as well: :Vegeta: The form of Frieza that you see standing before you is not what he really is — it's just a clever camouflage. He can transform to his real self at any time; he just uses this form to conserve energy. :Frieza: Oh, you rude little ruffian, please. I don't choose my real form because my power is too radical to control. :— "The Fusion" His true power and "real form" seem to be referred to interchangeably, at least strongly implying that his final form was his real form. Even if we ignore the implication, we can at least say that his weakest form is definitely not his original (true, real, whatever you want to call it) form. There seems to be some confusion as to the definition of a "true" form. AFAIK, I'm pretty sure we're referring to an original form, as opposed to something that's not fake. -- 08:44, 5 March 2009 (UTC) :I agree with that inference in its translation from the Japanese version. The only thing I'm sure of is that none of his forms are "fake". They're certainly not as powerful or key to his power as his final form; maybe even a "clever camouflage" as stated (one of the best descriptive lines) but that doesn't yet suffice to say that any of his forms are less true or fake. All his forms are real. The best idea we can extract is that Frieza truly conserves his energy by rendering his other forms; whilst his final form holds his true power. - PrinceZarbon 00:25, 6 March 2009 (UTC) Oh, I'm with you that none of his forms were fake, and that his final form holds his true power. This is why I get the impression from the quote above that when Vegeta and Frieza refer to a "real" form, they're referring not to a non-fake form, but Frieza's original, natural state. This form also happens to be his most powerful — so much so that he normally assumes a weaker form to conserve power. (BTW, I'm not really discussing this with the intention of changing anything; the only reason I brought up Frieza was to compare him and his transformations with Zarbon's. I didn't mean to derail the topic of discussion to Frieza.) -- 08:47, 7 March 2009 (UTC) :I agree with your inference. As long as we both agree that none of his forms are fake, I think we've been trying to say the same thing using different terminology mate. But I agree with what you're saying for the most part comrade. - PrinceZarbon 19:25, 7 March 2009 (UTC) Prince? When has Zarbon ever been shown as a prince, or mentioned as a prince on the show? I have read the entire manga, and there is no mention of him being a prince whatsoever. I may be, because Frieza picks the strongest warriors from the planets he conquers, and Prince's are strong, but it's doesn't have to mean just because he's the strongest of his planet, he was a prince. It may have been said in a video game, but the prince title may just be referencing his elegant form. I don't want to change this as I could be wrong, so I will wait for a reply. If this message is stupid and I'm missing something huge, feel free to facepalm. Thanks. What the HFIL?! 11:54, July 14, 2011 (UTC) :The video game does indeed confirm that he is; In fact, I went through great depths to find what Frieza said about keeping the strongest of each planet... (who happen to be the prince of that respective planet). Also, the fact that it is now listed in the game makes it rather official; and this is trivia worthy though it's not in the biography section. Information from games and limited to sources other than the manga, belong in the trivia section; and this qualifies for trivia, not so much for base biographical information. However, we can't completely disqualify this information since it is stated in-game. The best thing to do with this information is the same as with all coming from video game-verse: insert it in the trivia section and maintain it there. - 23:02, July 14, 2011 (UTC) I agree that it could be included in the trivia section, but also take note that everything that is not from the manga nor anime (or stated in the Daizenshuu and similar sources) is not canon. :There's also similar instances of Guldo's race being Bas-jin or Salza and Jeice being from a certain same planet that is debatable... in fact, they are only stated in some secondary sources, also non-canon by reference. But we maintain all these things in the trivia sections as well. The only things we can never put in the articles is fan-made material and unofficial material in general. But if we can locate anything from magazines or what not, then they hold some merit for trivia sections. - 22:24, July 15, 2011 (UTC) Zarbon is the first to... Hello, Zarbon is technically the first character to actually defeat Vegeta in a fight. Upon, his arrival on Earth, Goku managed to perform a X4 Kamehameha on him, but it did not defeat Vegeta. Vegeta then transformed into a Great Ape, pulverizing Goku in the process. Yajirobe, then cut his tail off, reverting him to his normal state. Goku then gave Krillin what was left of his spirit bomb, after he failed, and Krillin was able to unleash it, but Vegeta dodged it, and luckily Gohan deflected it back towards him, making a direct hit. Although the spirit bomb hit, it was still not enought to defeat the mighty prince. After a little match between Gohan and Vegeta, Gohan turned into a Great Ape, thanks to Vegeta's bruit waves. But vegeta was able to cut his tail off, only to have a huge ape falling on top of him. Even after all that, Vegeta still survived and was escaping with his last breath. Krillin then procedded to kill him, but Goku told Krillin not to, thus ending the battle into a draw. Neither side really won the fight, except Krillin had the opportunity too, but did not go through with it, because of Goku. After the battle on Earth, the next battle Vegeta endured was the one with his ex-rival Cui (Kiwi). Cui, assuming his power level was higher than Vegeta, was wrong, and was quickly disposed of, not even scratching Vegeta. After the introduction of Frieza and his top two henchmen, Dodoria, and Zarbon, Dodoria was looking for the two brats that Frieza ordered him to capture. Little did he know, that vegeta was able to sense power levels, and zeroed in on his exact position. Barely putting up a fight, Dodoria knew he was out classed with the Vegeta renewed with a Zenkai. After telling the history of Planet Vegeta's destruction, Vegeta then effortlessly killed Dodoria. Zarbon was then ordered to gather the Dragon Balls by his master Frieza. Upon seeking out a Namekian village, Vegeta then found the lone warrior by himself. After a couple of hits and kicks between the two, it was clear Vegeta was the superior one. Zarbon then had no other choice but to put away his pride and transform into his monster form. After transforming Zarbon was the dominant one, toying with Vegeta, then finishing him off. Vegeta was then found by Zarbon after Frieza ordered him to go back. Vegeta was not conscious, proving that Zarbon was the first character to defeat Vegeta in a fight. Please tell me what you think. Ripto22475 00:41, August 13, 2011 (UTC)Ripto22475 :I agree. Zarbon, Recoome, and Frieza, are the first to whoop Vegeta, in that order, respectively. Zarbon and Recoome's battles are by far my favorites in the entire series run. - 22:39, August 13, 2011 (UTC) ::Yes, those battles are really awesome. The earlier battles like that are really good. Anyway thanks for agreeing, do you think that mentioning some where in Zarbon's page that he was the first to defeat Vegeta? Like the trivia maybe? Ripto22475 00:13, August 15, 2011 (UTC)Ripto22475 :::Not necessarily; being the first to defeat someone isn't much of a trivial aspect... as the character is defeated numerous times by others later. It isn't an act limited to Zarbon. Also, I agree that those fights are awesome; they are my favorites through the series... I hate the Super Buu and Cell fights though. Especially the Cell Games... those are my absolute least favorites. - 01:15, August 15, 2011 (UTC) :::::Yes, the fights in the later episodes are not bad, but just not as great as the earlier ones. Zarbon is one my favourite villains too. It's just too bad he didn't have that much screen time. I think he got like top 10 in anime villains, with him being the only one from DragonBall Z. Anyway, do you think you could give me an example of trivia? Like on Zarbon's page, it says his earrings resemble the porta earrings, right? How exactly is that something like that qualify as trivia? 01:23, August 15, 2011 (UTC)Ripto22475 :The potara earrings are not related to him at all... I guess people feel they are designed similar to his earrings. However, they are completely different in nature and construct... as well as their ability. Zarbon was voted as greatest henchman in DBZ universe, which makes complete sense because he's the best hands down. I'll try to insert this tidbit for you in regard to his being the first to defeat Vegeta in battle. - 19:21, August 15, 2011 (UTC) :That not exact. If you begin to add conditions, that means that it isn't really a trivia.. he was defeated on Earth, and might have been defeated before offscreen. If you exclude the events of Earth becase Krillin spared him, why not doing so for Namek too.. Vegeta survived, even without Zarbon's help, he got out of water by himself and would have found a mean to be healed.. Jeangabin666 22:42, September 1, 2011 (UTC) Zarbon's Transformation Hey, Isn't Zarbon the first character to be introduced to be able to transform at will without any requirements? Goku was the first to tranform into a great ape, but it wasn't at will, and he needed the moon. The same goes for Vegeta, he needs some kind of blutz wave in order for him to transform. And Frieza could transform whenever, but that was after Zarbon. 22:05, September 1, 2011 (UTC) :Zarbon is the first villain character to transform and at will, indeed as Vegeta is an antagonist but never a villain. That greatly qualifies as trivia. - 22:26, September 1, 2011 (UTC) ::Puar can also transform at will, and he appeared before Zarbon. Jeangabin666 22:37, September 1, 2011 (UTC) Oolong can to. -- ponds11 lives by a pond 22:39, September 1, 2011 (UTC) : Hm...........I supppose I should change it to "first villain in Dragon Ball Z" instead. That sound good? 22:40, September 1, 2011 (UTC) ::Why excluding the other series?? If he is not the first one, he's not the first one. Jeangabin666 22:43, September 1, 2011 (UTC) ::Yes, Zarbon is the first VILLAIN to transform. The rest are merely sidekick characters or allies to the heroes (or those who switch to become heroes... like Vegeta) Zarbon is the first and Frieza is the second. Cell doesn't transform at will as he needs the androids to complete himself... and Buu loses and absorbs certain people to go from one stage to another. Zarbon and Frieza are the only ones to officially transform at will in the series run... and Zarbon is the first. - 22:45, September 1, 2011 (UTC) :::Both Oolong and Puar were villains when they debuted in the Pilaf Saga. Jeangabin666 22:48, September 1, 2011 (UTC) ::::Puar and Oolong aren't villains and never have been. Neither is Vegeta. They were merely antagonists who switched over to heroes. Also, they were shape-shifters... not transforming characters. Vegeta is the first actual antagonistic character to transform, but he isn't a villain either since he switches sides. The only ones who qualify as villains are the ones who stay villains (those who do not become heroes or anti-heroes) - 23:07, September 1, 2011 (UTC) ::::Transformation and shapeshifting for a specific amount of time are different things, in the first place. So yeah, Zarbon is the first villain to transform at will. - Kill You 23:37, September 1, 2011 (UTC) :::: ::::Yes, I have to agree with PrinceZarbon, and KillYou. Great job community! 00:29, September 2, 2011 (UTC) Quote I've found some more quotes. I don't really know if it's better than the current one, well just share your opinions on it. - 13:05, April 10, 2012 (UTC) :We won't be changing any of the primary quotes at the top of the article, but these can be used in the appending sections as we have multiple quotes on numerous character articles. - 01:57, April 11, 2012 (UTC) ::Ok. Then the first quote will be added by the Post-Transformation section. And the second quote will be added to Namek Saga. Thanks for your opinion. - 09:31, April 14, 2012 (UTC) Resemblance to Vega Should this be mentioned any were not sure if this is were I'm supposed to ask stuff like this Vega has a slight resembelance to Zarbon from Dragonball: Z. Both have the same hair style, both are handsome and have great pride in their looks, as well as being top henchmen of the main villainSpdr man (talk) 16:09, October 4, 2012 (UTC) :They don't look like at all. 20:46, October 4, 2012 (UTC) ::I disagree with Jeangabin. If there's anyone who resembles Zarbon in terms of character archetype the most, it's Vega of Street Fighter. Also, Vega is an awesome character as well, but we aren't allowed to put other characters in the articles themselves as this information does not pertain to the current editing guidelines. Same goes for lots of other characters from Street Fighter greatly resembling characters not just in DBZ but also in Fullmetal Alchemist and numerous other anime series. We cannot link to these characters, as much as I'd like to do so. - 21:01, October 4, 2012 (UTC) :::Perfectly put, PZ. 23:09, October 4, 2012 (UTC)